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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 7:01:58 GMT -6
that is kind of interesting that we have never had a great catcher before. One year from Castro and a couple from Biggio and nada after that. Even Rodriguez when he played here was on a rapid decent out of baseball. IMO....Johnny Edwards was the greatest Astros catcher. He wasn't a great hitter, but in the dead offense era of the '60's and '70's, he wasn't that awfully bad. Defensively, he was a bad ass, and if it wasn't for playing in the same era as Bench, would have gotten a whole lot more attention, |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 7:10:21 GMT -6
that is kind of interesting that we have never had a great catcher before. One year from Castro and a couple from Biggio and nada after that. Even Rodriguez when he played here was on a rapid decent out of baseball. IMO....Johnny Edwards was the greatest Astros catcher. He wasn't a great hitter, but in the dead offense era of the '60's and '70's, he wasn't that awfully bad. Defensively, he was a bad ass, and if it wasn't for playing in the same era as Bench, would have gotten a whole lot more attention, Meluskey was the most promising. Didn't he end up being an asshat though? |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 7:12:24 GMT -6
Pathetic offense and bad receiving skills obviously aren't a big factor for Hinch as long as they have veteran experience. No manager is perfect. Hinch is a hell of a lot more qualified to rate catchers than you . His offense hasn't been that bad after a bad start. We should all be thankful that Maldonado was obtained because at the time we had no idea if or when we would get McCann back and Stassi had already started his decline. Nobody but you is dumb enough to think Maldonado has bad receiving skills. It is obvious that you don't know shit about the makeup of a good defensive catcher. I'm sorry, Beto. If you can't understand that a .225 AVG with a .257 OBP and sub-.650 total OPS is bad, I don't know what to tell ya. "Nobody but you is dumb enough to think Maldonado has bad receiving skills." Yup. Just me, sports analysts, and anybody that understands it's important to block pitches in the dirt and not allow Passed Balls........ |
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Post by abregmanfan on Oct 3, 2018 7:57:26 GMT -6
I would love for us to sign Maldonado for a couple of years and trade for Realmuto for next year. Vodoo will be all over that! |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 8:01:35 GMT -6
Bump.
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Post by bearbryant on Oct 3, 2018 9:00:20 GMT -6
IMO....Johnny Edwards was the greatest Astros catcher. He wasn't a great hitter, but in the dead offense era of the '60's and '70's, he wasn't that awfully bad. Defensively, he was a bad ass, and if it wasn't for playing in the same era as Bench, would have gotten a whole lot more attention, Meluskey was the most promising. Didn't he end up being an asshat though? |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 9:03:01 GMT -6
Meluskey was the most promising. Didn't he end up being an asshat though? That must have been some attitude problem to part with a .300 hitting catcher. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 3, 2018 9:29:10 GMT -6
Todd with the Stassi bias grading him above Maldonado.
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 9:36:21 GMT -6
Todd with the Stassi bias grading him above Maldonado. So you too think Maldonado had a better all-around year than Stassi and would like to sign him as a FA this offseason? |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 3, 2018 9:50:27 GMT -6
Todd with the Stassi bias grading him above Maldonado. So you too think Maldonado had a better all-around year than Stassi and would like to sign him as a FA this offseason? Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Oct 3, 2018 10:01:05 GMT -6
So you too think Maldonado had a better all-around year than Stassi and would like to sign him as a FA this offseason? Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. Stassi had a good April (.257/.366/.457) and a great May (.340/.377/..640)...and then just like that, his good stats and eventually he was gone.... |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 3, 2018 10:03:17 GMT -6
Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. Stassi had a good April (.257/.366/.457) and a great May (.340/.377/..640)...and then just like that, his good stats and eventually he was gone.... Stassi is the guy I’d only hand the keys to if Maldonado wants too much money. Even then, I wouldn’t be totally comfortable doing so. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:05:02 GMT -6
So you too think Maldonado had a better all-around year than Stassi and would like to sign him as a FA this offseason? Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. Him losing playing time to a 7-time AS and the reigning Gold Glover is the reason he didn't play in a meaningful game for a long time. There's no surprise there. That doesn't change the fact that he had the best season out of a mediocre crop of catchers. I'm amazed that people are so ready to sign Maldonado as a FA when we had a better option in Castro and were happy to see him go. Y'all do realize that Maldonado is worse than Castro ever was, and most people cheered when he left. Castro's worst season was better than what we got from Maldonado.... Let that sink in. Worst season...better than Maldonado this year. Without even looking at stats, am I really the only one that sees Maldonado letting balls get by him every freaking game? Having a great arm doesn't make up for all the other glaring deficiencies. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Oct 3, 2018 10:07:35 GMT -6
Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. Him losing playing time to a 7-time AS and the reigning Gold Glover is the reason he didn't play in a meaningful game for a long time. There's no surprise there. That doesn't change the fact that he had the best season out of a mediocre crop of catchers. I'm amazed that people are so ready to sign Maldonado as a FA when we had a better option in Castro and were happy to see him go. Y'all do realize that Maldonado is worse than Castro ever was, and most people cheered when he left. Castro's worst season was better than what we got from Maldonado.... Let that sink in. Worst season...better than Maldonado this year. Without even looking at stats, am I really the only one that sees Maldonado letting balls get by him every freaking game? Having a great arm doesn't make up for all the other glaring deficiencies. The fallacy in your rubric is that if Stassi would’ve outplayed Maldonado, he would have had more games in which to contribute. He didn’t, he played sparingly, and that’s that. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:14:30 GMT -6
Stassi isn't the best by any means, but when you look at the money we need to spend in other areas, and you have, at worst, a respectable catcher for cheap in Stassi and a solid-looking prospect in Stubbs...why would you spend money on somebody that was a career backup catcher before last year and who hits worse than Jason Castro did?
He has played 132 games at the MLB level and has a respectable .713 OPS. Stassi was a good defensive catcher this year even with average caught stealing rates.
He hit a slump in mid-June and wasn't given a chance to play out of it because it was obvious they wanted a veteran catcher for our veteran pitching staff during the months leading to the postseason. I wouldn't sign him to any type of extension or anything, but: Solid all-around catcher for cheap > All-throw nothing else Catcher for not-cheap.
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:16:18 GMT -6
Him losing playing time to a 7-time AS and the reigning Gold Glover is the reason he didn't play in a meaningful game for a long time. There's no surprise there. That doesn't change the fact that he had the best season out of a mediocre crop of catchers. I'm amazed that people are so ready to sign Maldonado as a FA when we had a better option in Castro and were happy to see him go. Y'all do realize that Maldonado is worse than Castro ever was, and most people cheered when he left. Castro's worst season was better than what we got from Maldonado.... Let that sink in. Worst season...better than Maldonado this year. Without even looking at stats, am I really the only one that sees Maldonado letting balls get by him every freaking game? Having a great arm doesn't make up for all the other glaring deficiencies. The fallacy in your rubric is that if Stassi would’ve outplayed Maldonado, he would have had more games in which to contribute. He didn’t, he played sparingly, and that’s that. The catcher position is different because of the relationship they need to have with the rotation. Veteran experience has a lot of value for a catcher and it was obvious we needed that when McCann went down. It's not like replacing Gattis with White. But don't let that fact lead you to overvalue an overrated player. That's how bad contracts start. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:17:26 GMT -6
At least if y'all don't have faith in Stassi, don't settle for Maldonado... Go get somebody who is at least league-average.... That's all I ask.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 10:18:38 GMT -6
The fallacy in your rubric is that if Stassi would’ve outplayed Maldonado, he would have had more games in which to contribute. He didn’t, he played sparingly, and that’s that. But don't let that fact lead you to overvalue an overrated player. That's how bad contracts start. Yeah, but has coach weighed in yet?  |
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Oct 3, 2018 10:19:06 GMT -6
Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. Stassi had a good April (.257/.366/.457) and a great May (.340/.377/..640)...and then just like that, his good stats and eventually he was gone.... May was probably a fluke. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:20:42 GMT -6
I think people are overvaluing throwing out baserunners because we didn't do well with that last year. That's only a small part of being a catcher.
That's like signing a FA 1B because he scoops balls out of the dirt well. It's nice to have, but can he hit, can he stretch, does he have range, etc.?
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 10:22:59 GMT -6
Stassi had a good April (.257/.366/.457) and a great May (.340/.377/..640)...and then just like that, his good stats and eventually he was gone.... May was probably a fluke. Probably, but his major league numbers are very very similar to his minor league numbers. So there is no reason to believe that his current .713 career OPS isn't representative of what you would get from him on a consistent basis. It's nothing to give him an all-star slot over, but it's better than most catchers in the league and he's under club control. |
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marshall
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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood...
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Post by marshall on Oct 3, 2018 12:28:50 GMT -6
The nature of our pitching staff cries out for a bias toward a defensive catcher. They throw many balls with tremendous break which require a great defender. it's not just about runners, but also keeping those breaking pitches in front of you. If a catcher with this staff has league average receiving stats, it is because he's a great defensive catcher.
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Post by m240 on Oct 3, 2018 13:11:01 GMT -6
that is kind of interesting that we have never had a great catcher before. One year from Castro and a couple from Biggio and nada after that. Even Rodriguez when he played here was on a rapid decent out of baseball. IMO....Johnny Edwards was the greatest Astros catcher. He wasn't a great hitter, but in the dead offense era of the '60's and '70's, he wasn't that awfully bad. Defensively, he was a bad ass, and if it wasn't for playing in the same era as Bench, would have gotten a whole lot more attention, I kind of forgot about Edwards as well as Grote. But they were good but not great. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 3, 2018 13:13:24 GMT -6
I would love for us to sign Maldonado for a couple of years and trade for Realmuto for next year. Vodoo will be all over that! think about how strong that line up would be, even better if Tucker figures out how to hit major league pitching regularly. |
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Post by m240 on Oct 3, 2018 13:16:18 GMT -6
May was probably a fluke. Probably, but his major league numbers are very very similar to his minor league numbers. So there is no reason to believe that his current .713 career OPS isn't representative of what you would get from him on a consistent basis. It's nothing to give him an all-star slot over, but it's better than most catchers in the league and he's under club control. the thing I do not like about Stassi is that Verlander and Keuchel do not like throwing to him. |
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Post by thomasj13 on Oct 3, 2018 13:25:51 GMT -6
IMO....Johnny Edwards was the greatest Astros catcher. He wasn't a great hitter, but in the dead offense era of the '60's and '70's, he wasn't that awfully bad. Defensively, he was a bad ass, and if it wasn't for playing in the same era as Bench, would have gotten a whole lot more attention, I kind of forgot about Edwards as well as Grote. But they were good but not great. I liked Eusebio. |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 3, 2018 13:28:59 GMT -6
Todd with the Stassi bias grading him above Maldonado. You nailed that......he bashed the trade and then went on and on about how Maldonado was a 'bad receiver" and would not make the playoff roster. He still thinks Stassi is better than both Maldonado and McCann.  |
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Post by blcoach8 on Oct 3, 2018 13:33:19 GMT -6
So you too think Maldonado had a better all-around year than Stassi and would like to sign him as a FA this offseason? Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. The stat geek hopes the front office isn't dumb enough to waste money trying to re-sign one of the top defensive catchers around. We have never had a catcher who shuts down a running game like Maldonado. Stassi had a good start and fizzled out. He has been basically useless for the last half of the season. The front office would make a major mistake by NOT trying to re-sign Maldonado. Hopefully, Stubbs is ready to come up, be the backup, and learn from Maldonado so we can get rid of Stassi. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 13:36:28 GMT -6
Probably, but his major league numbers are very very similar to his minor league numbers. So there is no reason to believe that his current .713 career OPS isn't representative of what you would get from him on a consistent basis. It's nothing to give him an all-star slot over, but it's better than most catchers in the league and he's under club control. the thing I do not like about Stassi is that Verlander and Keuchel do not like throwing to him. Keuchel will be gone and Verlander is only here one more year. Can't base a decision just on that. |
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Post by Saint on Oct 3, 2018 13:38:32 GMT -6
Maldonado’s contributions have earned him at least consideration for an extended stay here. As for Stassi, I can’t remember the last meaningful game he played. The stat geek hopes the front office isn't dumb enough to waste money trying to re-sign one of the top defensive catchers around. We have never had a catcher who shuts down a running game like Maldonado. Stassi had a good start and fizzled out. He has been basically useless for the last half of the season. The front office would make a major mistake by NOT trying to re-sign Maldonado. Hopefully, Stubbs is ready to come up, be the backup, and learn from Maldonado so we can get rid of Stassi. Calling him a top catcher over and over again until you believe it doesn't make it so. If y'all want a crappier version of Castro (at his worst), go for it. Doesn't make sense to me but I don't own the team. |
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