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Post by Saint on May 29, 2018 21:03:03 GMT -6
Todd, you said it’s better to use Giles in save situations, but he pitched effectively in a non-save outing yesterday. His success on a given day depends on his command and what’s between his ears. So him pitching good in a normal situation is a bad thing? 🤨 |
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Post by Saint on May 29, 2018 21:03:45 GMT -6
Todd, you said it’s better to use Giles in save situations, but he pitched effectively in a non-save outing yesterday. His success on a given day depends on his command and what’s between his ears. So him pitching good in a normal situation is a bad thing? 🤨 [br Well, yeah. For him and any other pitcher. That's like saying the team that scores the most runs is going to win. |
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Post by unionstation82 on May 29, 2018 21:11:27 GMT -6
Todd, you said it’s better to use Giles in save situations, but he pitched effectively in a non-save outing yesterday. His success on a given day depends on his command and what’s between his ears. So him pitching good in a normal situation is a bad thing? 🤨 No, but only using him in tailor-made situations isn’t the solution for Giles. |
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Post by unionstation82 on May 29, 2018 21:14:24 GMT -6
So him pitching good in a normal situation is a bad thing? 🤨 Well, yeah. For him and any other pitcher. That's like saying the team that scores the most runs is going to win. That’s not the same given as debating when to use Giles. He should pitch well in almost every situation, but he gives you these meltdown games. If he can close a 5-1 win, why can’t he hold a 8-3 game? |
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Post by blcoach8 on May 29, 2018 21:17:18 GMT -6
We have no closer..........period. Giles is a nut case. Peacock's slider is now horrible
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Post by Saint on May 29, 2018 21:21:50 GMT -6
Well, yeah. For him and any other pitcher. That's like saying the team that scores the most runs is going to win. That’s not the same given as debating when to use Giles. He should pitch well in almost every situation, but he gives you these meltdown games. If he can close a 5-1 win, why can’t he hold a 8-3 game? I'm sure he can sometimes. I never said he couldn't. I've all along just tried to say that he has been good in normal save situations. I'm just arguing against the "he always sucks" crowd. He doesn't always suck. |
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Post by unionstation82 on May 29, 2018 21:23:26 GMT -6
That’s not the same given as debating when to use Giles. He should pitch well in almost every situation, but he gives you these meltdown games. If he can close a 5-1 win, why can’t he hold a 8-3 game? I'm sure he can sometimes. I never said he couldn't. I've all along just tried to say that he has been good in normal save situations. I'm just arguing against the "he always sucks" crowd. He doesn't always suck. Well, I agree with that. |
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 0:35:27 GMT -6
Interestingly, Peacock is most effective as a reliever with either only one day of rest (1.35 ERA) or 5 or more days of rest (1.42 ERA). Anything in between and he struggles. He's also another guy who is better on the road than at home normally. This may sound counterintuitive, but I'd be willing to put Keuchel on the 10-day DL for regularly scheduled rest and give Peacock a couple starts. Let's see if he pitches better as a starter than a reliever. If he gets hammered, he can always be taken out in the 3rd/4th inning and McHugh can keep on pitching till the 6th or 7th. If the experiment succeeds, Peacock can be used to giving rest to the core 5 starters on a rotating basis. If it fails, he can return to the bullpen after 10 days. I don't see a big down side to this. |
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 1:13:46 GMT -6
I would imagine that Giles would do better closing out games for KC. They aren't expected to do anything this year so it would be low-pressure for him. And that team only generates save situations about once every three games, so he wouldn't be overworked.
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 2:05:46 GMT -6
If it's any consolation, the MLB average for Blown Saves this year is 7 per team. The Astros pen has blown 6 saves. It's a little better than average but absolutely no fun to watch those blown saves. Reminds me of a song from childhood
In any case, NYY has blown 8 saves this year, so imagine how their fans must feel
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Post by thomasj13 on May 30, 2018 5:43:42 GMT -6
Todd, you said it’s better to use Giles in save situations, but he pitched effectively in a non-save outing yesterday. His success on a given day depends on his command and what’s between his ears. I like Giles as an early 2000s Lidge....wish he was the 7th inning pitcher and we had Dotel type in the 8th and a Wagner type in the 9th....After typing this, of course all of us would want this... Luhnow needs to find his 8th and 9th inning pitchers come trade deadline....I hate trading for them, because either they should be grown from within or signed as free agents, but "It is what it is" right now. |
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Post by bearbryant on May 30, 2018 7:04:58 GMT -6
Never Mind the Bullocks is such a great record that stands the test of time to this day. People forget they recorded that before Sid Vicious joined the band
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 7:15:03 GMT -6
If Hinch is going to test internal options to bolster the bullpen, I think now is the time to do it. It can be done by putting a current reliever on the 10-day DL with toe spasms and calling up a reliever on the 40-man.
Back in ST, I really thought Brendan McCurry would be ready by now. Not sure what happened to him.
However, some options to consider are Hoyt, Guduan, Armenteros, Emanuel, and Cionel Perez.
I wouldn't mind seeing rolling call-ups to see who sticks.
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 7:20:00 GMT -6
McCurry's last six appearances have been all right, but he's allowed one or more runs in 8 of his 18 appearances this year. In the majors that probably would have been more like 12 out of 18 appearances, pretty bad.
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Post by Saint on May 30, 2018 8:29:21 GMT -6
We have good relievers that have had some bad days lately. My concern is that our plan with the bullpen seems to only be making sure they don't throw too many pitches in an appearance. I'm assuming they're trying to keep guys from getting worn out as they did last year, but, to me, I'd rather see guys pitch less often but pitch longer when they've got the hot hand.
Let them go an extra inning and then give them an extra day off before you use them again. Especially guys like McHugh, Devenski, Smith, and Rondon who have shown to have good stamina.
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Post by unionstation82 on May 30, 2018 9:00:09 GMT -6
I think it’s time to increase Smith and Rondón’s workload. Luhnow brought them here for a reason. Let’s see what they bring to the table.
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Post by unionstation82 on May 30, 2018 9:03:24 GMT -6
If it's any consolation, the MLB average for Blown Saves this year is 7 per team. The Astros pen has blown 6 saves. It's a little better than average but absolutely no fun to watch those blown saves. Reminds me of a song from childhood. In any case, NYY has blown 8 saves this year, so imagine how their fans must feel. Peacock alone has given up four game-ending hits this season with three of those losses being charged to him. It’s time for Hinch to tweak his thoughts on who to rely on in desperation games. |
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Post by unionstation82 on May 30, 2018 9:12:53 GMT -6
Luhnow needs to find his 8th and 9th inning pitchers come trade deadline....I hate trading for them, because either they should be grown from within or signed as free agents, but "It is what it is" right now. That’s pretty much how I feel. Luhnow can’t just focus all his attention on the starting pitching when the relievers don’t hold up their end of the bargain. Peacock isn’t getting movement on his pitches, Giles is Eckersley one day and Lima (MMP version) for another day. Harris is unreliable, especially at the end of games. Devenski is great, but I’m not sure he can handle the 9th inning regularly. They need to fix it. |
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Post by Saint on May 30, 2018 9:30:08 GMT -6
The big thing I keep coming back to is our usage of Peacock and McHugh. These are starting pitchers that have had good success. Why aren't we using them more in the 6th/7th inning and letting them pitch multiple innings? They have the stamina and it keeps them from being limited to a pitch count when they have to help with some spot starts in the future (or for when a starter WILL go on the DL).
Both of those guys can be three inning guys. Devenski, Rondon, and Smith can all be two inning guys when they're obviously on. Harris and Giles are probably limited to one one inning per appearance, but they seem to do mostly fine in normal 8th and 9th inning situations, respectively.
Stretch guys out a little further and don't use them as often if you're concerned about workload.
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Post by unionstation82 on May 30, 2018 9:36:48 GMT -6
My guess is Hinch doesn’t know what to do with Peacock and McHugh. I definitely agree that these guys aren’t high octane relievers who get psyched up to only get three outs. I think they should be multiple inning guys used to give rest for the regular relievers regardless of the score. They need the work and practice. While they’re solid pitchers, I just don’t feel totally confident in them needing to get those one-inning close saves.
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 9:41:44 GMT -6
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Post by Saint on May 30, 2018 10:07:39 GMT -6
Or just plan to get 5 innings out of him and one of those two finish the last 4. |
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Post by blcoach8 on May 30, 2018 11:10:27 GMT -6
We were fortunate to survive last year with a weak bullpen. I wouldn't press my luck twice. Load up some young players and go get Herrera before another contendeer grabs him.
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Post by astrosdoug on May 30, 2018 20:54:18 GMT -6
Orbit for closer  |
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Post by astrosdoug on Jun 1, 2018 3:06:36 GMT -6
The sabermetrics say that the Astros relievers most likely to improve in June are Devo and Sipp. These are guys who did good jobs of limiting hard contact and walks, but ran into situations where weak grounders got through the hole; pop-ups found empty grass; and things like that which were unlucky but unlikely to be continuing problems.
On the other end of the stick, McHugh and Smith were the beneficiaries of lucky situations in May and we might expect them to not fare quite as well in June as they did in the previous month.
Ken Giles had to deal with an absolutely ridiculous .480 BABIP against in May, meaning about 60% of the hits against him that month would not normally have fallen for hits. Harris was also a BABIP victim in May at .364, but not to the same extreme degree as Giles.
Joe Smith enjoyed a BABIP against of .071, so we might say he's due to give up a couple runs in June. I won't hold it against him if that happens. It looks to me like he will be a valuable bullpen piece for the postseason so long as the Astros stay focused and get that far.
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Post by Saint on Jun 1, 2018 9:51:59 GMT -6
Yes, Giles and Harris have had bad luck. Most fans are too biased to see that though.
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Post by blcoach8 on Jun 1, 2018 14:09:27 GMT -6
Yes, Giles and Harris have had bad luck. Most fans are too biased to see that though. I am not biased. I just don't have my head buried in the sand. I've seen this same act out of Harris since he handed the playoff series to KC in 2015 and Giles has proven over and over and over that he cannot be depended on to close a big game. Why do you think Hinch treated him like he wasn't there during last year's playoffs and WS? I doubt if most of the players are confident with Giles being the closer. |
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Post by Saint on Jun 1, 2018 15:13:29 GMT -6
Yes, Giles and Harris have had bad luck. Most fans are too biased to see that though. I am not biased. I just don't have my head buried in the sand. I've seen this same act out of Harris since he handed the playoff series to KC in 2015 and Giles has proven over and over and over that he cannot be depended on to close a big game. Why do you think Hinch treated him like he wasn't there during last year's playoffs and WS? I doubt if most of the players are confident with Giles being the closer. You obviously didn't watch Harris in the World Series then. He pitched in 3 games and only allowed 2 baserunners with no runs. And his numbers with the Astros have been excellent: 2.43 ERA with a WHIP under 1.000. Hard to ask for much more than that from a reliever. I've already said repeatedly my thoughts on Giles and compared his save success rate to several others. He has had some blowups but he has generally been fine. People only remember the blowups though. I'd love somebody like Kimbrel, but there aren't a ton of those out there or that are available. There seems to be unreasonable expectations from a lot of fans that relievers should never allow runs or baserunners and that every closer should strike out the side. If it was that easy everybody would have a dominant bullpen. Compare our bullpen to others and we're actually pretty high up there. I think it was something like 5th best ERA in baseball or something. edit: And Harris is making less than $3 million this year. |
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Post by unionstation82 on Jun 1, 2018 16:01:54 GMT -6
Like I’ve said before, Harris keeping Game 2 at a 3-1 margin set the stage for the epic comeback. Giles was garbage for the whole postseason. I don’t think there was any pressure situation where he didn’t allow a run. I almost had a heart attack in Game 2 when Bellinger was a couple feet short of a walkoff homer.
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Post by ɮօʀȶǟʐ on Jun 1, 2018 17:47:54 GMT -6
Here's the Litmus test for relievers:
You hear it all the time...fans, players or announcers say, "The team is hoping to avoid facing (Chapman, Jansen, etc, etc)."
Do teams hope to avoid facing Squatting Ken? I doubt it. Or, "OMG, hope we don't have to face Wil Harris!"
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